Snak

Jo jo, pengene er der da, men man skyder så ved siden af på de spillere man udvælger. Hvilket naturligvis er ærgerligt.

Forlængelserne af VVD, Trent og Mo er der slet ingen meldinger på. Det er sgu ikke videre smart, hvis det ender med, at alle 3 smutter gratis næste sommer.

Har delt den før, men læs denne artikel. Der kommer Graham ind på transfer og investeringer.

https://x.com/theosquiresecho/status/1824718514701185350?s=46&t=JtdGf38P_b6zHYWCuYGL6g

Savner ikke de gamle dage hvor det virkede som om at klubben havde en liste på 10 mand og fik man ikke de første 8, så hentede man bare nummer 9 på listen fra Fulham

Så havde vi ikke haft spillere som Salah og Robbo i klubben, hvis man fx udelukkende var gået efter Julian Brandt, som var førstevalget i sin tid til højrekanten ;)

Den nuværende data-drevne money ball tilgang baseret på en intern værdisætning har sin helt klare styrker - men også nogle åbenlyse svagheder.

Bedømt som sofaseer ligner det, at der mangler nok pragmatisme og fleksibilitet.

Hvis ens excel ark og database siger, at Mamardshvili max må koste 35 mio. Euro. - så er det åbenbart umuligt at strække sig et par millioner yderligere, hvis man kan sikre en kommende førstekeeper eller Lavia til 6´eren?

Jeg er i tvivl om spillere som Robbo, Shaq og Gini nogensinde var blevet hentet med det nuværende setup - men se, hvor meget værdi, der blev hevet ud af dem. Joe Gomez og Matip kan måske også puttes i den kategori.

Så havde vi ikke haft spillere som Salah og Robbo i klubben, hvis man fx udelukkende var gået efter Julian Brandt, som var førstevalget i sin tid til højrekanten ;)

Tvivler nu på at Salah var nummer 9 på listen - men er enig til en vis grænse.
Der skal naturligvis være flere kadidater, hvis det er en kritisk position der SKAL fyldes.

Med Lavia var det vel reelt spilleren der selv fravalgte klubben og ikke fordi vi blev overbudt - og er fortaler for at vi ikke smider lønpolitikken overbord.

Der skal selvfølgelig stadig hentes unge talenter og spillere til bredden - men min anke går på når vi skal smide +300 millioner - så skal det satme også være en spiller der forstærker truppen og ikke bare er på niveau med det der er i truppen allerede.

Coutinho hentede for £8.5 M :)

Interessant del af Graham´s bog omkring Rodgerd/Klopp skiftet.
Sidst lidt omkring Darwin transferen:

Rodgers’ refusal to work with a sporting director meant that a transfer committee was formed compromising of the manager, CEO Ian Ayre, Edwards (then technical director), head of recruitment Dave Fallows and chief scout Barry Hunter.

Graham was an “unofficial member”, with data fed into the decision-making process, but there was friction when he opposed Rodgers’ plans to sign Joe Allen and Gylfi Sigurdsson, two players the Northern Irishman had managed at Swansea City. Rodgers got his way with Allen and striker Fabio Borini when other members of the committee felt that Chelsea’s Daniel Sturridge was a better option. Sturridge was signed six months later.

Graham’s “biggest regret” when it comes to not landing a player was Diego Costa. After prolonged discussions internally, Liverpool did belatedly try to trigger his €25million (£21m; $28m at current rates) release clause in August 2013, but he opted to sign a new contract at Atletico Madrid.

“Can you imagine a Liverpool front line of Luis Suarez and Diego Costa?” laughs Graham. “It would have been filthy! As it was, Costa ended up joining Chelsea the following year.”

Liverpool made a hash of replacing Suarez when he left for Barcelona in 2014. Graham says differences of opinion meant the club didn’t move quickly enough to land their first-choice target of Alexis Sanchez, who joined Arsenal instead. The data suggested Red Bull Salzburg’s Sadio Mane as a cheaper alternative to Rodgers’ pick of Southampton’s Adam Lallana.

Surprisingly, Graham’s department were supportive of the decision to buy AC Milan’s Mario Balotelli, who played just 28 times and scored four goals.

It was a dysfunctional period. Rodgers had wanted Ashley Williams and Ryan Bertrand but ended up with Mamadou Sakho and Alberto Moreno.

“In the first few years of the transfer committee, those failed signings, most of them were because the players we wanted to bring in Brendan vetoed,” Graham says. “And the ones Brendan wanted to bring in we vetoed. So at times we ended up with fifth- or sixth-choice players. We just weren’t getting our top targets.”

Graham claims he “begged” the owners not to sign Aston Villa’s Christian Benteke in the summer of 2015 as he felt he was a poor fit for Liverpool’s style, but signing the Belgian striker was an “obsession” for Rodgers and FSG paid the £32.5million release clause.

The compromise was that Rodgers would also accept the signing of Roberto Firmino from Hoffenheim for £29million. Edwards was adamant that the Brazilian was undervalued and the data showcased his all-round contribution — despite a modest goal return in Germany. Firmino went on to score 111 goals in 362 games for Liverpool, while Benteke was off-loaded after just one season having netted 10 times in 42 appearances.

So what changed when Klopp replaced Rodgers in October 2015?

“The difference was Jurgen’s open-mindedness,” Graham says. “The data gradually became more sophisticated and the models improved, but there wasn’t a step-change in the quality of our analysis when Brendan left and Jurgen arrived. It was the same processes and the same people.

“When Jurgen said, ‘We should think about signing Matip on a free transfer’, I had to pinch myself to check I was awake,” Graham adds. “For years we had viewed him as the best young centre-back in the Bundesliga. Michael went to see him after doing the deal and Bayern Munich’s scouts were there too. Matip slipped over on the halfway line and Schalke conceded a goal. Bayern’s scouts were like, ‘Ah, we knew he was rubbish’. But what a free signing he proved to be.

“Jurgen also really liked Mane, who we had suggested previously. In those first two seasons in particular, Jurgen was suggesting players I would have been suggesting to him. What he saw in a player was the same as what we saw in a player. We didn’t have to fight.”

“But Mo is a multi-functional forward. He can run with the ball, he can pass and create, as well as shoot. Our ‘Possession Value’ model attempted to put a value on each of those passes, runs and shots. It showed he added real value in those three ways and was very difficult to defend against.

“From a complicated data point of view, he ticked all the boxes. He came out as the best wide forward in Europe aged 24 or under. Mo came with the baggage of having failed in the Premier League, but our data analysis helped us to understand that we could ignore that.

“Michael, Dave and Barry convinced Jurgen to go for Mo and he was gracious enough to speak publicly about the part they played in that. Jurgen would say, ‘OK, I like this guy, but I haven’t watched hundreds of games like the scouts have and I haven’t done the analysis like the data department have, so I’m going to have an open mind and take a serious look’.

The signing of Darwin Nunez from Benfica for an initial fee of £64million in June 2022 was largely driven by Klopp after the Uruguayan’s impressive performances against Liverpool in the Champions League.

As Klopp’s power and influence increased, did the club move away from their data-led model?

“Nunez played brilliantly against Liverpool and that has an effect on people,” Graham says. “It didn’t do him any harm in becoming a Liverpool player.

“The difficulty with Nunez was that he was a very different type of player to Firmino. My questions were: ‘Are we going to change our style or formation for him?’ Is he a good enough player that it might be worth making those changes?’. It was something we had resisted for many years.

“We went through the same data process for Nunez as with other players. I wanted to make sure that everyone knew what a big change it would be with Nunez. It was more, ‘Are we sure we’re going to make the best use of him?’.

“I talk in the book about classifying players to understand what their role is. It’s different to whether they are any good or not. We always had a list of ‘great players but not for Liverpool’. Defensive full-backs, target men, crossing wingers — we just didn’t play in that style. It was clear that Nunez was a No 9.

“I wouldn’t say that the data said no to Nunez. It’s more ‘if we sign this player we have to understand this is the role we’ve seen him be effective in and is there currently a slot for him in our squad?’. And if you’re spending a large amount of money on a player then he has to start. The worst thing you can do is buy a squad player and spend money that could be out there on the pitch.”

Det er vildt nok, man vil kritisere bare for at kritisere. Har ejerne ikke givet midlerne til Zubimendi ? Og går da osse udfra, man har givet midlerne til ham målmanden, men at vi ikke bare betaler hvad sælgende klubber vil have, er der jo ikke noget nyt i.

Det er i så fald ikke ejerne, der skal kritiseres. Bød også rekordbeløb på Caicedo for et år siden. Så pengene er der. Man kan derimod undres over, hvad den sportslige ledelse har lavet hen over sommeren. Det virker ikke til, der bliver arbejdet på højtryk. Ny manager - og så kan de ikke byde ind med andet end en fejlslagen Zubimendi transfer? Det virker ret amatøragtigt.

Coutinho hentede for £8.5 M :)

Ak ja - det var en god low risk high reward transfer (havde fulgt Coutinho som helt ung i Inter).

Men det var meget hit & miss med det gamle komite - hvor spillere som Lazar Markovic, Fabio Borini mv. maksede ud i de interne vurderinger og papirer. Men de ramte da guld i ny og næ - Coutinho salget er sgu noget nær et mirakel.

@ Zacha

Lyder til, at vi er enige hele vejen.

Ja der blev virkelig betalt dyre lærepenge i FSG første år som ejere, forkerte folk på div. vigtige positioner - store investeringer i truppen som ikke gav holdet nogen fremgang, samt en enorm gæld der osse skulle håndteres :)

Men ja Coutinho hentede for £8.5 M og solgt for £142 M, den slår de fleste handler :)

Hvis man ikke vil betale mere end 35 mil for Marma så skal det nok passe at en anden klub kommer og napper ham.
Hvor herre bevares…

Trent skal der altså snart komme styr på.